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	<title>Comments on: Sucky proposed NJ adoption law</title>
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	<link>http://drunkenatheist.com/2009/11/26/sucky-proposed-nj-adoption-law/</link>
	<description>...because sometimes masturbation gets old.</description>
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		<title>By: Issycat</title>
		<link>http://drunkenatheist.com/2009/11/26/sucky-proposed-nj-adoption-law/comment-page-1/#comment-5224</link>
		<dc:creator>Issycat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkenatheist.com/?p=3417#comment-5224</guid>
		<description>Hey I&#039;m sorry for the pain you endured but I just don&#039;t understand why this means adoptees shouldn&#039;t have access to their OBC&#039;s.
The papers that were signed do not provide confidentiality.  They simply terminate any rights to the person in question.  The signing away of one&#039;s rights to a child also does not cause amnesia nor is it a magic wand that negates the fact that a mother has given birth.
I am actually fortunate to have my OBC because my mother and I matched via our state registry.  My OBC is actually somewhat de-humanizing.  I am listed as &quot;Female&quot;.  That&#039;s my original first name, isn&#039;t it lovely?
Listen, adoption isn&#039;t pretty for either party, the adoptee or the first parent.  It is in fact fairly dehumanizing all around.
Now we can sit around playing the who-has-more-pain-game or we can get down to business.
Personally, I think it would be best if everyone put aside their own shame and pain and looked at the law and what it truly entails.
And the TPR is not legally what you are saying it is.  It just isn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey I&#8217;m sorry for the pain you endured but I just don&#8217;t understand why this means adoptees shouldn&#8217;t have access to their OBC&#8217;s.<br />
The papers that were signed do not provide confidentiality.  They simply terminate any rights to the person in question.  The signing away of one&#8217;s rights to a child also does not cause amnesia nor is it a magic wand that negates the fact that a mother has given birth.<br />
I am actually fortunate to have my OBC because my mother and I matched via our state registry.  My OBC is actually somewhat de-humanizing.  I am listed as &#8220;Female&#8221;.  That&#8217;s my original first name, isn&#8217;t it lovely?<br />
Listen, adoption isn&#8217;t pretty for either party, the adoptee or the first parent.  It is in fact fairly dehumanizing all around.<br />
Now we can sit around playing the who-has-more-pain-game or we can get down to business.<br />
Personally, I think it would be best if everyone put aside their own shame and pain and looked at the law and what it truly entails.<br />
And the TPR is not legally what you are saying it is.  It just isn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: jimm</title>
		<link>http://drunkenatheist.com/2009/11/26/sucky-proposed-nj-adoption-law/comment-page-1/#comment-5221</link>
		<dc:creator>jimm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkenatheist.com/?p=3417#comment-5221</guid>
		<description>Great post - excellent reading! Good comments and responses. 

I am sorry for your loss.  I hope for a peaceful resolution.

I am also one of &quot;those&quot; adoptees who feel we deserve to have our original birth certificates upon adulthood.  Not complete adoption records which may contain information otherwise protected by HIPPA, just the birth certificate.  

Simply because it&#039;s what other adult law-abiding citizens are allowed to have.  Those named on it have the same legal protection to privacy every other American enjoys.  It is not about reunion, it is about equality - eliminating one last bit of state-sanctioned discrimination.  Slavery is now illegal, women can vote, adult adoptees should have all the rights other law-abiding adult citizen enjoy including the right to a copy of their own official record of birth.  Six states do allow adoptees their original birth certificates and none have reported problems.  BTW, I know the information on my obc and no family member alive objects to me having a copy, yet state law prohibits it.

Birth certificates were never sealed to protect the birthmothers&#039; identities.

They were sealed to shield the adoptive families and adoption brokers from outside scrutiny.  Anonymity for the relinquishing mother is not, nor has never been legally guaranteed in any state including New Jersey.  The relinquished child retains his or her original birth certificate with birth parent(s) names listed their entire life unless adopted.  Issuance of an ammended certificate is typically the last step of an adoption and those who age out of the foster care system always have their birth mother&#039;s name on their original certificate.  

Privacy of the relinquishing mother is legally protected in all states, including those which provide obc&#039;s to adult adoptees.  Anonymity is not, in any state.  

Where is the rationale in withholding this most personal of official documents, treating this arbitrary class of adult citizens differently from all others?

The rationale is that agencies and attorneys make billions off the adoption industry and are loath to upset the status quo.   Someone made 20 grand off your kid, dear.  I think that sucks.  And I think it sucks that your kid should be treated any differently than anyone else in any way, but especially by the government when he becomes a tax-paying adult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post &#8211; excellent reading! Good comments and responses. </p>
<p>I am sorry for your loss.  I hope for a peaceful resolution.</p>
<p>I am also one of &#8220;those&#8221; adoptees who feel we deserve to have our original birth certificates upon adulthood.  Not complete adoption records which may contain information otherwise protected by HIPPA, just the birth certificate.  </p>
<p>Simply because it&#8217;s what other adult law-abiding citizens are allowed to have.  Those named on it have the same legal protection to privacy every other American enjoys.  It is not about reunion, it is about equality &#8211; eliminating one last bit of state-sanctioned discrimination.  Slavery is now illegal, women can vote, adult adoptees should have all the rights other law-abiding adult citizen enjoy including the right to a copy of their own official record of birth.  Six states do allow adoptees their original birth certificates and none have reported problems.  BTW, I know the information on my obc and no family member alive objects to me having a copy, yet state law prohibits it.</p>
<p>Birth certificates were never sealed to protect the birthmothers&#8217; identities.</p>
<p>They were sealed to shield the adoptive families and adoption brokers from outside scrutiny.  Anonymity for the relinquishing mother is not, nor has never been legally guaranteed in any state including New Jersey.  The relinquished child retains his or her original birth certificate with birth parent(s) names listed their entire life unless adopted.  Issuance of an ammended certificate is typically the last step of an adoption and those who age out of the foster care system always have their birth mother&#8217;s name on their original certificate.  </p>
<p>Privacy of the relinquishing mother is legally protected in all states, including those which provide obc&#8217;s to adult adoptees.  Anonymity is not, in any state.  </p>
<p>Where is the rationale in withholding this most personal of official documents, treating this arbitrary class of adult citizens differently from all others?</p>
<p>The rationale is that agencies and attorneys make billions off the adoption industry and are loath to upset the status quo.   Someone made 20 grand off your kid, dear.  I think that sucks.  And I think it sucks that your kid should be treated any differently than anyone else in any way, but especially by the government when he becomes a tax-paying adult.</p>
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		<title>By: Falyne, FCD</title>
		<link>http://drunkenatheist.com/2009/11/26/sucky-proposed-nj-adoption-law/comment-page-1/#comment-5220</link>
		<dc:creator>Falyne, FCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkenatheist.com/?p=3417#comment-5220</guid>
		<description>Joyjoy, you don&#039;t speak for all adoptees. Some of us manage to have a little compassion and empathy.

And, frankly, it IS easier to be &quot;abandoned&quot; as an infant than older. I never knew my birthmother, or birthfather. I don&#039;t have any memories of them. My folks, fucked-up as they may be*, handled this one right. They always told me I was adopted, gave me what little information they had, and that was that. 

I never developed any issues of abandonment, and, especially after passing 18 (the year my birthmother was pregnant), I can totally understand the circumstances under which she felt she had to do it (18, preggers, catholic). 

My mom&#039;s dead now, and I&#039;ve toyed around with the idea of trying to get in touch with my birthmom, out of a combo of curiosity and a desire to show her I&#039;m ok (if she&#039;s worried). But, yes, her right to privacy TOTALLY trumps my desire to dig things up. Nothing bad will come out of my status quo of not-knowing, while there&#039;s potentially bad stuff coming from forcing myself into her life. It&#039;s a utilitarianistic no-brainer.

*a certain sax-playing teacher can fill in some details about my fucked-up folks, heh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joyjoy, you don&#8217;t speak for all adoptees. Some of us manage to have a little compassion and empathy.</p>
<p>And, frankly, it IS easier to be &#8220;abandoned&#8221; as an infant than older. I never knew my birthmother, or birthfather. I don&#8217;t have any memories of them. My folks, fucked-up as they may be*, handled this one right. They always told me I was adopted, gave me what little information they had, and that was that. </p>
<p>I never developed any issues of abandonment, and, especially after passing 18 (the year my birthmother was pregnant), I can totally understand the circumstances under which she felt she had to do it (18, preggers, catholic). </p>
<p>My mom&#8217;s dead now, and I&#8217;ve toyed around with the idea of trying to get in touch with my birthmom, out of a combo of curiosity and a desire to show her I&#8217;m ok (if she&#8217;s worried). But, yes, her right to privacy TOTALLY trumps my desire to dig things up. Nothing bad will come out of my status quo of not-knowing, while there&#8217;s potentially bad stuff coming from forcing myself into her life. It&#8217;s a utilitarianistic no-brainer.</p>
<p>*a certain sax-playing teacher can fill in some details about my fucked-up folks, heh.</p>
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		<title>By: joyjoy</title>
		<link>http://drunkenatheist.com/2009/11/26/sucky-proposed-nj-adoption-law/comment-page-1/#comment-5218</link>
		<dc:creator>joyjoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 08:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkenatheist.com/?p=3417#comment-5218</guid>
		<description>It is really so sad that you feel no love or compassion for your son.  That you feel that your &quot;rights&quot; to be blocked from some bad memory trumps his rights to his identity.

Certainly, you could have had an abortion and protected yourself and him from such an unkind reality.  That would have been much more humane.

Why on earth you think it is easier on the adoptee side of things just boggles my mind.  It is no easier to be abandoned as an infant than it is on a six year old.

As to the previous poster, her sister &quot;placed&quot;  or abandoned 22 years ago, and it is no easier on them.  For feck&#039;s sake Seamus, why do you think it is easier on the adoptee?

It is not.  I would bet my life&#039;s saving it is in fact harder.

You want to deny us our rights because it hurts your fee-fees?  

Well, guess what? 

It hurts like hell to be left by your mother.  Your trauma does not compare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is really so sad that you feel no love or compassion for your son.  That you feel that your &#8220;rights&#8221; to be blocked from some bad memory trumps his rights to his identity.</p>
<p>Certainly, you could have had an abortion and protected yourself and him from such an unkind reality.  That would have been much more humane.</p>
<p>Why on earth you think it is easier on the adoptee side of things just boggles my mind.  It is no easier to be abandoned as an infant than it is on a six year old.</p>
<p>As to the previous poster, her sister &#8220;placed&#8221;  or abandoned 22 years ago, and it is no easier on them.  For feck&#8217;s sake Seamus, why do you think it is easier on the adoptee?</p>
<p>It is not.  I would bet my life&#8217;s saving it is in fact harder.</p>
<p>You want to deny us our rights because it hurts your fee-fees?  </p>
<p>Well, guess what? </p>
<p>It hurts like hell to be left by your mother.  Your trauma does not compare.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://drunkenatheist.com/2009/11/26/sucky-proposed-nj-adoption-law/comment-page-1/#comment-5217</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkenatheist.com/?p=3417#comment-5217</guid>
		<description>I follow you on twitter and finally had the time and space to get over here and read your entry.
I think you make an excellent case for not allowing adoption records to be universally opened. My sister placed a child for adoption, closed. That was 22 years ago and none of us are over that yet. I read The Girls Who Went Away and it broke my heart. I had always planned on adopting but once we started the process I realized I was not okay with how birthmothers are treated and our adoption plans are on hold indefinitely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I follow you on twitter and finally had the time and space to get over here and read your entry.<br />
I think you make an excellent case for not allowing adoption records to be universally opened. My sister placed a child for adoption, closed. That was 22 years ago and none of us are over that yet. I read The Girls Who Went Away and it broke my heart. I had always planned on adopting but once we started the process I realized I was not okay with how birthmothers are treated and our adoption plans are on hold indefinitely.</p>
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		<title>By: joyjoy</title>
		<link>http://drunkenatheist.com/2009/11/26/sucky-proposed-nj-adoption-law/comment-page-1/#comment-5216</link>
		<dc:creator>joyjoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkenatheist.com/?p=3417#comment-5216</guid>
		<description>It will probably make a lot more sense after you sleep it off, and you are welcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will probably make a lot more sense after you sleep it off, and you are welcome.</p>
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		<title>By: drunkenatheist</title>
		<link>http://drunkenatheist.com/2009/11/26/sucky-proposed-nj-adoption-law/comment-page-1/#comment-5215</link>
		<dc:creator>drunkenatheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkenatheist.com/?p=3417#comment-5215</guid>
		<description>@JoyJoy:  LOL.  Thanks for the nonsensical, accusatory diatribe.  Thanks a bunch!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JoyJoy:  LOL.  Thanks for the nonsensical, accusatory diatribe.  Thanks a bunch!</p>
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		<title>By: joyjoy</title>
		<link>http://drunkenatheist.com/2009/11/26/sucky-proposed-nj-adoption-law/comment-page-1/#comment-5214</link>
		<dc:creator>joyjoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkenatheist.com/?p=3417#comment-5214</guid>
		<description>Why should parents who legally abandon their children be afforded any special protection from the government to protect them from the facts of their own lives?

That doesn&#039;t make any sense.  Why shouldn&#039;t this protection be extended to every person that has a bad memory, whether it is a war vetran or a kid that got picked on horribly in high school?

Honestly, my least favorite brand of  &quot;feminism&quot; is this, the type that promotes the infantilizing of women as if they are not capable of being the captains of their own lives.

I can tell you with all sincerity that no man has ever &quot;forced&quot; me into making a decision not at 13, not at 15, and certainly not at 20.

I am sorry you see yourself as a victim of your boyfriend, I certainly hope you are capable of making better decisions about the people who  you choose to engage in your right of free association with.  Also, personal accountability is actually freeing and helps people make wiser choices in their lives.  I am sorry to see you dismiss it out of hand.

As for the be lucky you had loving parents--- Well adoption is no guarantee of that.  You naivete is a bit shocking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why should parents who legally abandon their children be afforded any special protection from the government to protect them from the facts of their own lives?</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t make any sense.  Why shouldn&#8217;t this protection be extended to every person that has a bad memory, whether it is a war vetran or a kid that got picked on horribly in high school?</p>
<p>Honestly, my least favorite brand of  &#8220;feminism&#8221; is this, the type that promotes the infantilizing of women as if they are not capable of being the captains of their own lives.</p>
<p>I can tell you with all sincerity that no man has ever &#8220;forced&#8221; me into making a decision not at 13, not at 15, and certainly not at 20.</p>
<p>I am sorry you see yourself as a victim of your boyfriend, I certainly hope you are capable of making better decisions about the people who  you choose to engage in your right of free association with.  Also, personal accountability is actually freeing and helps people make wiser choices in their lives.  I am sorry to see you dismiss it out of hand.</p>
<p>As for the be lucky you had loving parents&#8212; Well adoption is no guarantee of that.  You naivete is a bit shocking.</p>
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		<title>By: drunkenatheist</title>
		<link>http://drunkenatheist.com/2009/11/26/sucky-proposed-nj-adoption-law/comment-page-1/#comment-5213</link>
		<dc:creator>drunkenatheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 18:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkenatheist.com/?p=3417#comment-5213</guid>
		<description>@Amyadoptee: My adoption is open, so a lot of your comment is moot; the information was turned over to the agency for them to give to him when he wishes.  Also, I&#039;ve never said I&#039;d keep any information about my ex-boyfriend from my birthson.  

Your issues with passports speak more to problems with Homeland Security than a need to revamp adoption law.  

@BroadSnark:  Thank you for your comment!  You&#039;ve hit the nail on the head when you stated that adoptions start with a tragedy.  From the birthmother side, you&#039;re often told that what you&#039;re doing is a wonderful thing...a wonderful thing that has traumatized some women for the rest of their lives.  No one bothers to be the least bit honest with you throughout the process, and once you&#039;ve gone through it, the agency will try to wash their hands of you as quickly as possible.  After doing a ton of reading, I think that a lot of the problems I had with my adoption process are issues that are systemic and institutionalized problems throughout the entire industry.  Personally, I don&#039;t even know if it&#039;s possible to keep the industry intact while still ridding it of these deep-rooted problems.  I think the whole system would resemble something radically different in the end.  (Not that this is a bad thing.)

Thank you again for your comment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Amyadoptee: My adoption is open, so a lot of your comment is moot; the information was turned over to the agency for them to give to him when he wishes.  Also, I&#8217;ve never said I&#8217;d keep any information about my ex-boyfriend from my birthson.  </p>
<p>Your issues with passports speak more to problems with Homeland Security than a need to revamp adoption law.  </p>
<p>@BroadSnark:  Thank you for your comment!  You&#8217;ve hit the nail on the head when you stated that adoptions start with a tragedy.  From the birthmother side, you&#8217;re often told that what you&#8217;re doing is a wonderful thing&#8230;a wonderful thing that has traumatized some women for the rest of their lives.  No one bothers to be the least bit honest with you throughout the process, and once you&#8217;ve gone through it, the agency will try to wash their hands of you as quickly as possible.  After doing a ton of reading, I think that a lot of the problems I had with my adoption process are issues that are systemic and institutionalized problems throughout the entire industry.  Personally, I don&#8217;t even know if it&#8217;s possible to keep the industry intact while still ridding it of these deep-rooted problems.  I think the whole system would resemble something radically different in the end.  (Not that this is a bad thing.)</p>
<p>Thank you again for your comment!</p>
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		<title>By: drunkenatheist</title>
		<link>http://drunkenatheist.com/2009/11/26/sucky-proposed-nj-adoption-law/comment-page-1/#comment-5212</link>
		<dc:creator>drunkenatheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 18:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkenatheist.com/?p=3417#comment-5212</guid>
		<description>@Ron, my biggest issue is that the state is placing a blanket response on a situation that should be dealt with an individual basis.  The law is problematic and makes very little concessions for birthparents who do not want to be located and requires you to turn personal information over to the government if you do not wish to be contacted.  I&#039;m not too hep on that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ron, my biggest issue is that the state is placing a blanket response on a situation that should be dealt with an individual basis.  The law is problematic and makes very little concessions for birthparents who do not want to be located and requires you to turn personal information over to the government if you do not wish to be contacted.  I&#8217;m not too hep on that.</p>
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